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Good day. I am Hanuman Purī, from Rijeka. I am 34 years old and have been a vegetarian for 17 years. Hari Om. My name is Govind Purī, I am 42 years old, from Zagreb. In daily life, I am a yoga instructor. I have been practicing yoga for so long I’ve lost count—since 1988—and have been a vegetarian since then as well. By profession, I am a basic trainer and have been practicing yoga for the past 17 years. I am a yoga instructor and a vegetarian. When I started with yoga and sports, I was also involved in water polo and basketball during my childhood. My first encounter with vegetarianism was at age 17, the year I began practicing yoga, because the principle of yoga and non-violence (ahiṃsā) automatically leads to a vegetarian diet—meaning without animal products such as meat, fish, and eggs. In the beginning, when I started with vegetarianism, it was practically unimaginable in our region, considering our culture and tradition, for people to be vegetarians. There is a certain belief that especially for us athletes, proteins from animal sources are absolutely necessary. So that first encounter was somewhat reserved, I would put it that way. The distrust was great. I wasn’t 100% sure whether it would affect my development. Specifically, I have been practicing bodybuilding for the past 17 years. Will I be able, for example, to develop a certain muscle mass that I currently have through a vegetarian diet? Unlike Hanuman Purī, I became a vegetarian through sports. At that time, I was intensely involved in volleyball; I played in the then-second Federal Yugoslav league as a setter, what is called a technician. I had great ambitions, and the problem was the initial speed—that very first step which is the most important to move towards the ball. I asked the club doctor how I could increase my starting speed, and he immediately fired back: "Stop and eat meat." I looked at him, and he said, "Look, the more meat you eat, the more your muscle fibers become explosively short." And the man said, "Look, Ivan Lendl." Ivan Lendl was then the absolute number one in the world of tennis; he was, in fact, an absolute vegetarian. I simply came home and said, "Mom, from today I will not eat meat." And that was that. I was actually fortunate because my mother was just beginning to practice macrobiotics at that time, so I had exceptional understanding from the person preparing my food. She did not consider it strange at all; she regarded it as healthy. So when I actually came to it, when I started practicing yoga, for me vegetarian nutrition was simply a continuation. That ethical aspect of vegetarianism, non-violence, developed later, I would say, with the development of my own consciousness, but I truly became a vegetarian in order to achieve a sporting result. At that time, I began practicing vegetarianism as a volleyball player. Life somehow wanted me to stop practicing that sport because of very severe knee injuries I had, which were the result of improper training methods, and for a long, long time I did not engage in any sports at all. I have always engaged in physical activity recreationally, but I never practiced sports at a very serious level. I won’t say professionally because we don’t take money for it, but somewhere around my 39th year, I started practicing triathlon. Triathlon is a discipline that consists of swimming, cycling, and running. I practice a discipline commonly known as Ironman, which means 3.8 km of swimming, 180 km of cycling, and immediately after that, 42 km of running. When I started, I was, let’s say, in the category of about 75 kilograms; my current weight is around 100 kilograms. That was actually the beginning of my practice. I have not felt any difference in dynamic sports like basketball, volleyball, or football, in terms of lacking strength or endurance, which my colleague will explain in more detail later. What interested me the most, however, was how to develop muscle mass, that is, how to extract the amount of protein from plant-based foods. The problem is not finding the ingredients; however, the problem, I tell you again, is the environment. Because we have that so-called mental framework. We are surrounded by this information to the extent that it is simply impossible to develop or achieve a certain result if one does not use, say, meat, fish, eggs—because they are choices, I don’t know, of certain amino acids, some kind of basic vitamins, minerals, and so on—which is not true at all. Indeed, we are surrounded, and especially here in our environment, speaking specifically about Croatia, we have a very good, meaning our surroundings, or rather the entire region, are very rich in various grains, different legumes, and then, for example, we also have a wide range of nuts that we have in our surroundings. All of that is available to us, so we have the resources. It’s just that there is again this mental block where people hesitate and think, "Well, I won’t switch to vegetarianism because I think I might lose something by doing so." Here, that is the greatest problem that exists among people. People always want to give you some advice in one way or another; it is somehow in the human psyche that people always wish to offer some kind of good counsel. However, it can happen that in some way you receive, especially when you are at the beginning, when you do not yet have any result, you have not achieved something that you can guarantee with what you are doing, specifically what you eat, then people have a kind of sneer, like, "No, well, look, after all, if you are vegetarian, then you won’t be able to reach that level, and so on." However, a person’s perseverance, discipline, and a certain dietary regimen that must be learned automatically—meaning as soon as one switches—because I would like to say a few specific words: regarding animal-based foods, these are the most important. So when we talk about proteins, these are amino acids. Here we are talking about those eight essential amino acids that, as a rule, every food of animal origin contains. They are extremely important in muscle building, meaning muscle recovery, and they form a kind of foundation that is essential; that would be the golden rule in this. However, with plant-based foods, we can obtain all those amino acids, but in a certain way, specific knowledge is required, meaning that from certain foods we take something, and then we create a so-called mix. So we mix certain ingredients to obtain the same property that we would get if we ate a piece of meat or some kind of fish or eggs, and so on. If I have ever truly begun to seriously engage with nutrition and understand the impact of diet, especially a vegetarian diet, on an athlete, it was thanks to triathlon, because triathlon is one of the few sports disciplines where an athlete needs to nourish themselves during the race. There is no person in the world, whether they finish the race in 8 hours or 17 hours (the Ironman limit), during that period when the body is constantly in motion, the body must both eat and drink. And in fact, through training that is very exhausting and very methodical, we learn how to eat, how to drink, and through daily experiences, a person gains their own experience, their own digestion of how the things they eat affect their feeling and performance during training. So for me, it was never a problem to eliminate artificial sugars after some time, because they simply acidify me completely, and then on top of that, the lactic acid produced during training makes my recovery much, much longer. Now I exactly know what Hanuman Purī said: if I feel that I am a little short of food before training, before some running, I will take a couple of figs or a couple of satisfying figs or nuts, and that will give me enough strength, or rather energy, to start the training. I will always have some water with electrolytes to drink during the training, or something else to put in my mouth, depending on the length of the training. So, our practice involves what is called aerobic activity, which means we are constantly in motion, our heart is working all the time, and we do not have static exercises like weightlifting, for example. I have about 13-14 hours of training per week, and possibly 1 hour per week purely of strength training in the gym, where I actually focus more on functional training than on exercises with machines. Everything else is either swimming, or cycling, or running. Similarly, for us, the so-called periodization is very important. We are now specifically in the period of foundational training, and the base is being laid, that is, the foundation upon which so-called endurance will later be built. So, for example, I now have a cycling training session of 1 to 1.5 hours or running for 1.5 hours, and soon, in two months, all of that will increase to two or even three times, so a normal cycling training will be between 5 to 6 hours, and running 2 to 3 hours. And then it is very important that you know exactly what you are eating. I would like to emphasize here that Hanuman Purī and I are engaged, as one might say, in a kind of sport—completely different activities. My activity is based on endurance. It is based on the strength of the body and the tone of the muscles. For us, it is much easier to be smaller, narrower, because a smaller muscle consumes less oxygen in movement. Muscle mass, body volume—the smaller, the more favorable, because we are enduring. A larger muscle consumes more oxygen. A smaller muscle consumes less oxygen. So, for example, in these last three years I have definitely lost 10 kilograms, but I did not lose weight through dieting, rather through reflecting on what and when to eat. I admit that for many years, a vegetarian diet for me simply meant a way of life and thinking in an ethical sense, and I did not place much emphasis on how to nourish myself properly—from the very way a person eats to the choice of ingredients I use. Today, considering that I expend so much energy and actually wear out my body so much, I know exactly what comes after what, how I train, how I recover, and I clearly know the difference between salad that is organically grown and salad that comes from mass production. I know that to some, this may sound like total science fiction, but you know, when you train very, very intensely, you truly understand what brings you energy and what does not. What takes your energy away. There are moments during practice when you feel hungry and you look forward to a certain food, because intuitively you know that this is exactly what you need at that moment. So in our practice, we also pay great attention to what we eat and are very mindful of whether the food creates alkalinity in the body or creates acidity in the body. So in the evening, I never eat nuts, no matter how hungry I am, but fruit and dried fruit are something I do eat if I urgently need something. But that is why I will definitely use proteins in the evening, because precisely due to human metabolism and insulin in the daily cycle, it is the best way for a person to fill the muscle fibers in order to be ready for the efforts that await him in the morning. And in the morning, I will have carbohydrates that will replenish my glycogen reserves. I cooked for myself, especially in the beginning—my own beginning was like that considering my environment, as I mentioned before, my family was not familiar with vegetarian food, so I was simply compelled to cook for myself. Now, or rather later, as the people around me in my family slowly got used to it, I have a certain privilege. I can say today, for example, my mother cooks when I am at her home or so, but generally cooking is not a problem for me and it is not unfamiliar, so I cook by myself. It is also interesting how and what to eat. So, during training, when the race is still far away, I will always choose carbohydrates, that is, foods that are organically grown and whole grain—whether it is whole wheat pasta, brown rice. About ten days before the race, it transforms into a truly refined food, because the process of digestion in the intestines is much shorter, and glycogen reserves are replenished. So it is not always the same ingredient that is the best at every moment, so to speak. And if we pay attention to that, especially I, whether something slows down or speeds up digestion. Because regardless of whether it is training or a race, one of the worst things that can happen to you on a bike is having to go to the WC. Or you are running and you need to go to the WC. Not only does that stop you, no. It is about time that has been lost. It is about the fact that you have some movement that has stopped somewhere, you have let go of something, and now the whole, so to speak, the entire body, the entire complex, the entire system needs to be renewed. And that is not simple either. One extremely important thing I have noticed is the mindset with which a person approaches training. I do not want to err in the soul, but I am very joyful about what I do. I prefer training over trading. I enjoy the race. In our race, we do not have such results. There are professionals, but at my level of practice, we all do it for ourselves, for our own pleasure, for our own enjoyment, for pushing the boundaries. For if you can ever see that it is the head that governs the body, then it is in this sport. Because after some time, your body simply does not want to continue anymore. You must have exceptionally strong inspiration; you must know very, very well why you are doing it. And here not only vegetarianism, but especially yoga helps me. Not a single training session passes without me connecting everything I do with mantra, with breathing, and with certain concentration techniques that actually inspire me to complete it exactly as I envisioned. When it comes to foods from which we can obtain the best quantity and highest quality source of proteins, that is, amino acids, I would list first nuts—meaning the entire range of nuts: from peanuts, almonds, cashews, hazelnuts, walnuts, and then a whole range of lesser-known ones, I don’t know, Brazilian nut, macadamia, again walnut and so on, which are not so readily available to us. But this whole section, meaning peanuts, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts that we have here, is a good source of amino acids, and besides amino acids, it contains very high-quality fatty acids, which people generally do not know are very important in the building of muscle tissue. So, all of that, everything, affects our endocrine glands. So, the entire hormonal profile of a person is influenced simply by consuming foods like those nuts I just mentioned. Along with that, of course, there are dried fruits, and clearly, alongside dried fruits, I would also mention legumes, which are exceptionally rich in vitamins, minerals, and of course, amino acids, that is, proteins. We live in a region where, for about 30-40 years, a certain way of thinking has prevailed—that without meat, we cannot function, that it is what gives us strength. I often tell people, for example, about my grandmother, who passed away in 1995, born in Gorski Kotar, lived there until she was 30 or 35 years old, coming from a very wealthy family. If there is meat available anywhere, it is there. She said they ate meat once a week, and that on Sundays. So, regarding health and everything, it is a complete myth that meat is necessary for strength. Personally, I mostly use, for example, from foods, meaning from nuts, for me the best ones are peanuts and almonds. So I usually take peanuts as peanut butter, the kind that is ground and such, and almonds can also be ground, they can. It is somehow made into a certain kind of paste, then blended a little with milk, and thus you get a good shake that is automatically rich in proteins. And for example, among those legumes, I would mention lentils, which are exceptionally good. Now we have several types of lentils. There is the black lentil and the red lentil, which are extremely rich in amino acids, that is, proteins, and other vitamins, such as a whole range of B vitamins. Then there are automatically vitamin A, provitamin A, and so on. So that is, let’s say, my foundation, and along with that, of course, mostly vegetables—a whole range of vegetables that together provide a complete picture of nutrition, along with proteins, which serve as a kind of base. Hanuman Purī is into bodybuilding without those steroids, without those supplements. The people you see as professionals, that is all chemistry. Simple as that. It’s all chemistry. And now the question is, what is the result. For me, the result is that from what I am, whether in training or in the race that day, I achieve the maximum. And if I have achieved my maximum, does anyone need to tell me that I am a champion? I know that this is the maximum. And in that way, I also believe that by thinking in this manner, a person reduces the need for competition and rivalry. It is more about growth than the desire to defeat anyone or to put anyone behind me. As for carbohydrates, carbohydrates are also absolutely necessary; they are needed for energy, especially during training and intense efforts. Clearly, carbohydrates are very important for recovery as well. I would highlight complex carbohydrates the most. This would include rice, or rather all foods that are unrefined, such as whole grain rice, whole grain pasta, and so on. From vegetables alone, for example, we have a very good and healthy potato, which is an exceptionally good food with complex carbohydrates, and for those faster carbohydrates needed before training and such, definitely any type of dried fruit is recommended: from raisins to dried apricots, dried pineapples, and so on. It is a challenging quality carbohydrate that provides the amount of those sugars needed for glycogen replenishment, that is, blood sugar. When preparing vegetarian food, I personally don’t philosophize much as a rule, because I don’t use, say, a lot of spices, or a lot of this and that, there’s not much sautéing or roasting, and so on, so the whole meal, or however we want to call it, is prepared relatively quickly, in a short time. So there is no need for, let’s say, the preparation that is quite lengthy with meat, fish, and such, and then the actual process of cooking and so on. So that vegetarians and even those who eat meat can prepare meals quickly and with good quality. When it comes to triathlon, it was interesting to hear Hanuman Purī talk about the relationship, so to speak, between vegetarianism and, more specifically, the bodybuilder type of vegetarianism. In triathlon, especially in Ironman, many of the top, absolute Ironman champions are vegetarians. Some are even vegans. Vegans are those who do not consume any products of animal origin. In Croatia, our best triathlete, professional triathlete Dejan Patrčević, who has also been practicing yoga in everyday life for years, is a vegetarian. A young rising star whom we all know and believe, if he continues to develop this way, will become world-class—Andrej Vištica, a vegetarian. I had just recently asked him how he was doing, since he is involved in sports, and then I asked where the ethical aspect is. He also said the same, the ethical aspect comes later. And truly, in that way, through practice and through a much greater sensitization to one’s body, to one’s psyche, to what is happening, we really develop what I would dare to call compassion, both for those who struggle beside you in the race, and also for the animals you see as living beings. Specifically for building muscle, for example from fresh cottage cheese, or milk, but nowadays, unfortunately, milk, if we can find it from some, say, natural source, or from someone we know and so on... Otherwise, milk itself today is quite problematic, and many people are intolerant to that milk sugar, lactose, so for example, I would not recommend milk in large quantities, but for instance, a fresh cow’s cheese, yogurt, a kefir, that is extremely good, for example, one that has an extremely good amount of protein. And in addition to what I mentioned before, that means nuts and the whole range of legumes, which are extremely rich for building muscle mass and, accordingly, muscle tissue. That is the foundation that is essential. And then automatically, what I said before, it is necessary to extract that knowledge, meaning, amino acids, essential amino acids, and then create a proper mix, or a blend that would be, let’s say, in this pure example I will say, meaning, if we are working with, for example, grah (legumes), then we will add rice to it. And then we will obtain that complete spectrum of those eight essential amino acids. If, for example, we are preparing lentils, we will add, say, cornmeal or polenta, as it is called at home. And so, or if we have, say, another type of legume, then we can also mix them with, for example, some grains like wheat, millet, barley, and so on. And now, I forgot to mention, a very important single plant-based food that contains all eight essential amino acids is soy. Now, today again, we encounter quite a few contradictory things related to soy, for example, that it is genetically modified this way, that way, and so on. However, if the soy, which we also repeat here, can be obtained from a natural organic source, it contains the basis from which later soy milk and soy cheese, called tofu, are made, and from it we can obtain an exceptionally high-quality extract—a protein that I would definitely recommend to all athletes. I personally practice two to three hours daily, which I usually split into half in the morning session and half in the evening session. My training usually consists of cardiovascular exercise, which could be some form of, like cycling, swimming, running, or even walking, like a stroll if we are not exactly in a... It all depends on what kind of day I am having, whether I am more tired, less tired, how I feel energetically and mentally, automatically. And also weight training automatically, which is very important, especially for building muscle tone and muscle mass. I personally began practicing, meaning my first visit to Tarentana was about 17 years ago, where in a way a love for that sport and bodybuilding was born, because through this sport one continuously builds upon oneself. One develops oneself both physically and mentally through this sport because, in a way, one is always faced with challenges and thus constantly strives to achieve better and better results. Last year, I specifically competed in the Croatian championship and achieved third place, meaning I won the bronze medal in the classic category, and that was, so to speak, an accomplishment that in a way gave me encouragement for further competitions. The concept of a bodybuilder, a vegetarian, is in a way very foreign. I wouldn’t say it’s foreign because in the world there are also associations of vegetarians, bodybuilders, and there are competitions for vegetarian bodybuilders. However, they are still viewed as, let’s say, people who are somehow on the sidelines, as individuals who cannot achieve a certain result and, unfortunately, have not attained a result that would be comparable to some kind of worldly success and so on. And usually, people who start bodybuilding and follow vegetarianism do not have that kind of, let’s call it, aggressiveness to prove themselves exclusively to others, for example, but in a way, they do it for themselves and for their own personal health. And then it comes to them as a kind of byproduct, practically what they have achieved. People who know me personally, I mean for all these years while I have been working on building my body, they have simply accepted it. It would be unimaginable for them if I were to say now that I am going to eat some kind of meat or something. So even more so, wherever I go, if I go to some restaurants or somewhere, if they invite me to some parties, I don’t know, birthday parties or so on, they always make sure that I always get my vegetarian meal and so forth. But as for the competitors themselves, it is still very unfamiliar to them, and that, for me personally, is a challenge that actually gives me some strength to keep going and to somehow demonstrate that it can also be achieved through vegetarianism and... good success and develop a certain muscle mass that will be satisfactory for a good result. We often, you know, in yoga, in everything, when we speak, talk about how important willpower is, as icchā śakti, how important the ability to act is, kriyā śakti, how essential that knowledge is, jñāna śakti. And I believe that in everything we do, those three aspects must be fulfilled, and a person should know when they do not know something. It would be honest to know when we do not know something, and if we can ask someone who does know, it will be better for us, and we will know more, and we will develop. When it comes to preparing food, I personally enjoy making it myself, and my specialty is actually śēkīs. In the morning, I begin the day by preparing a fruit-and-nut carbohydrate meal that I start making the night before. I know exactly what to soak in water, precisely so that it loses a certain acidity and becomes more alkaline. I put certain ingredients in the morning, then blend them nicely and get a huge amount of energy, a huge amount of calories, without any feeling of heaviness in the body, except that I can work, lead exercises, and later continue with training. So my first, so to speak, solid food meal is only somewhere between two and half past three. And until then, fruits, quality carbohydrates, and then after that a meal where, for example, salad is an extremely important part of my meal, and of course some quality pasta.